Interview with Inas Radwan

Can you give me a brief background about yourself, where you grew up, what you do?

My name is Inas Radwan Saeed, I’m twenty-one years old, I study at the American University of Jenin and I live in Zababde1 close to Jenin.2 I was born in Saudi Arabia, and then I moved back and forth with my family between Jordan and Palestine because my mother’s from Jordan and my father is from Palestine.

So you lived in Jordan?

Not really, but we used to spend a lot of long vacations there in the summer. My mother’s family moved to Jordan after the War of 19673 and they stayed there. My father was born here in Jenin.

Tell me about your peace-related activities, your meetings with the Israelis. Tell me about the beginnings and how you got to where you are now…

I started in 1996 in Afula;4 there was supposed to be a meeting between the Palestinian and Israeli school kids but then they [the Israelis] became unwilling to participate because they were afraid of such meetings even though the situation wasn’t bad at the time. Then in 1998 I participated in a month long program in France to talk to Europeans about the Palestinians. Most of the activities were focused on telling about the Christians in Palestine because the [the Europeans] didn’t know we existed. I wasn’t active after that because I was busy with the Tawjihi.5 When I was a freshman at university, I participated in Building Bridges for Peace6 and I am still involved with them.

Who organized the meeting you attended in 1996 in Afula?

It was through the Cultural Center at the school in Zababde and was supposed to last for a long time but the Jews did not want to cooperate

So you were Palestinian and Israeli students?

We were a group of high school and university students, but it didn’t last because there was no funding and because the other side did not want to cooperate.

So you did not meet with Israelis then?

We did go to meet them once in Afula but none of them came, they were afraid. We waited for three or four hours and they didn’t show up. Their leader finally came and told us that the parents did not let their children attend the meeting, even though we were the ones that had to get permits to come in and meet them.

How did you feel and what was your reaction when the Israeli participants did not show up at the meeting?

We went straight after school, it was a trip that we planned for months, and first they found the center and then looked for people that were interested. They made a lot of calls to the Israelis, they couldn’t use email at the time so they had to make phone calls, which cost them a lot. We took a bus and came back and it was around eight at night because our permits expired at nine. We felt rejected, they were afraid of us even though we were the ones coming to visit them. We made the effort to get permits, we were a bus full of people and they were only one person, their leader, but no one else came

So what made you get involved again in 1998?

In 1998, a second trip to France was arranged by us, the students, no one funded us, it was at our expense. We had a French teacher that took us with his wife because they knew the places. We had prepared for a small play in French and our folklore dance, the Dabke, and other theatre shows we planned to perform. No one supported us; we had to bring the costumes, the dresses for the Dabke, from the locals because the school wouldn’t provide them for us. We prepared everything by ourselves.

Why didn’t the school want to support you?

Because they said that this was an activity that we wanted to take part in, and the school didn’t want to take responsibility. We paid for everything. I saved money during my ninth grade year; we practiced for hours after school. Then I went when I was in the tenth grade. It wasn’t easy, we practiced a lot for the performance and we toured all of France. We took trains and busses, used maps; the only thing the French helped us with were train tickets for our travel.

Were there Israelis at the program in France?

Not at the program, but we met some Israelis as soon as we arrived in Paris. It was around the time of the world cup championship.7 When we got out of the train station, exhausted from the trip to Paris, they were handing out leaflets that said, “Come to the Promised Land.” We had a quarrel with them on the street and they took our leader’s ID number.8 We were very afraid that they would harm us on the way back. The Israelis were everywhere, especially in holy places. But the new thing for us was being able to hold up the Palestinian flag like we can today. It was normal to hold the flag after 2000, but in 1998 it wasn’t normal. We were very happy to hold our flag up. People started recognizing us. They didn’t know that there were Palestinian Christians; they thought we wore the cross for decoration. We went to a lot of places so a lot of people learned about us.

How did you get involved in Building Bridges For Peace?

It was in 2002. It was the first year at the university for me, and Razan Makhlouf, she’s a relative and went to university with me, told me about the program because she was a past participant. I knew about the idea behind this program, but not about the program itself. We had similar programs, in the concept that there is something inside us that we couldn't express here [in this country] so we can do that in outside countries. It was very nice the first time I attended Building Bridges, it was a new experience and different from the ones I had before, I never thought it would be like that.

How was Building Bridges For Peace different from other programs in which you had participated?

All the programs that I’ve been to were about me talking about my pain, I didn’t know and wasn’t willing to hear that the other side was also in pain. I didn’t want to listen to that, I didn’t want to understand or imagine that. At first I felt like I was being forced to listen to them [the Israeli participants], I didn’t want to listen. For example, the first time they said they wanted to talk about the bombings that happen in Israel, I said I didn’t want to listen and nothing could make me. I only wanted to be there [in the program] just to show the world who I was. But I had to listen for the first time and eventually I came to realize that it’s not fair for me to keep talking and not listen to them.

What made you listen to the Israeli participants?

The first time I really felt that I was forced to listen, it really was a problem because I didn’t want to listen. They insisted that they wanted to talk about their pain and what was hurting them. At last I gave in, not because I wanted to listen but because I became curious. If they wanted to talk, so be it, I didn’t have to understand or feel their pain, I would just listen if they wanted to talk. When they started talking, I realized that they were saying the same things I say only from a different perspective. The way they talked was different; they were saying the same things I would say. For example they say they are afraid of getting on a bus, I say that I am afraid of walking in the streets of Jenin, or of being in a car behind the car of wanted people,9 or being near it… The names have changed but the idea is the same. They would talk about the children that died, I immediately would tell them about Mohammed Al Durra,10 Iman Hajjo11 and a list of names of children that were killed. When they started talking about their children, I felt that the names had changed but the idea was the same: that both nations are in pain. As I said before, I let them talk because they wanted to get it off their chest, but I didn’t care—they could say whatever they wanted—and then I started to understand.

Can you tell me about Building Bridges for Peace?

You cannot call it a peace camp because it doesn’t make us sit there with them and make peace or leave having freed Palestine. It is about giving us a chance to express ourselves; we cannot talk here so we go outside to talk to the other side and express ourselves. We do not need to express ourselves with weapons and bombing; we can do it in other ways. We meet eighteen- and nineteen-year-olds, the age at which they [Israelis] go to the army, so we try to make them understand. I know that one or two [people] cannot change their government, but at least when they go to the army, if they go to the army, they will treat the Palestinians better than [Israeli soldiers] are treating us now. They will know that there are good Palestinians. There are some Israeli participants who refused to go to the army after camp because they realized that Palestinians are not all the same. I also realized the same thing: that they [Israelis] are not all the same. I had only seen Israelis in their army uniforms. The first time I saw them, I was expecting to see them in their uniforms. Maybe it doesn’t sound realistic, but that’s what I was expecting. I didn’t expect them to be wearing Jeans and a T-shirt like myself.

What motivated you to participate in this program?

Just like the program in 1998, I felt I had to take things into my own hands. But this time I really felt that there were people who cared. In 1998 all I wanted was to talk to people, as if it was about crying to them, begging them to know who we are. In 2002 I realized that I have to understand the other as well. The first time Razan12 told me about it I was very excited about going there and showing them [Israelis] and telling them about us, so I started reading history books and watching the news, I wanted to know everything so that I could tell it to them. While we were on the way to camp, a big military operation happened in Gaza13 and 13 Palestinian children were killed, it was so big it shook the world in Palestine. I wanted to tell them about this incident… as if was planned, there was a bus explosion after that in the same period, and just like the thirteen of our children who died, there were Israeli children who died on that bus explosion, too.

The Israeli participants used to think that only the Palestinian fighters are the ones killed in those operations and I used to think that only soldiers carrying guns die in those explosions. It never occurred to me that they might be normal people, just like me. Of course I should have known, but because I have not seen it with my own eyes, I could not imagine it. I used to get happy when I heard that some of them were killed, I used to think that they were soldiers, I never thought that there could be children or women among them. I used to think that it’s only the ones that are killing us that are killed, the ones I see on the street every day. That summer was the first time I saw them, that I see them, as human, and not as soldiers -- with the uniform and the helmets with the words,” Death to the Arabs” written on them, who were just getting out of Jenin refugee camp after an operation.14 I didn’t care if those died.

What changed for you in the program? What happened?

It was night when we first arrived at camp. The first thing they [the staff] asked us to do was to feel each other’s pulse with our hands. It was the first time I felt the other, I understood, touching them, what the message behind the exercise was. They were girls my age, I never imagined that. It sounds unbelievable but it’s true. Just like they imagine that all Palestinians are monsters with weapons, I imagined that it was all a country of soldiers. I was eighteen the first time I was in Building Bridges, and by touching them and feeling their pulse, I realized that they are not just soldiers with weapons; they are human, just like me. We started to get to know them gradually after that.

How long is the duration of camp, where does it take place and where do you stay?

The first time was two weeks in Bridgeton, New Jersey. There was a Jewish man that gave us his house to stay in. It was a big house but our number was bigger. We slept next to each other on mattresses. They arranged it so that a Palestinian slept next to an Israeli, who was next to a Palestinian-Israeli. It was intentional that we didn’t stay next to someone from our own delegation.

What did you do after you came back from camp?

There were supposed to be follow-up meetings, we also keep in touch through emails. The program is not just about spending a couple of weeks together and that’s it. We used to meet often, sometimes when we go to visit Razan in Azariya,15 we go meet some Israeli girls at a bus station and go somewhere. We went to Tabgha16 once for three days together. I didn’t go out a lot after that because it is very hard to get out of Jenin and to cross the Green Line17 without permission.18 The farthest I can get is to Ramallah19 and for that I still need a permit. It wasn’t easy for me to go there for meetings, but I know they used to meet.

Then you went back as a Leader - in - Training?

Yes, I went back as an LIT the second year and in 2004 I went back a staff member.

Did you feel a change within you over those years?

Of course anything that happens to anyone changes him in a way. When I first went there [to camp], I was in shock the first time I met them. I never imagined it, I never imagined myself there. We used to go to places together, sit together, laugh together, and have lunch together since we lived in the same house. At first we didn’t spend a lot of time together but eventually we did. The second year was very different; I wasn’t a participant and wasn’t a staff member, I used to observe both sides. I used to see myself as a participant and see how the staff was acting. I didn’t feel the pressure of having to talk and express myself but I used to help the participants by telling them how it was for me as a participant. The third year was the hardest as a staff member because it’s not about you as a person anymore; it’s about helping the participants to learn to listen to each other when they sit in groups. It is very hard because you cannot be involved in the discussion; it’s hard to just listen without saying anything. For example, if someone says: Arabs are killers or terrorists…etc, it hurts me inside but I cannot say anything to her and that’s hard. I used to get to points where I almost exploded, but I always turned to other staff and told them about what had happened. By bringing it all out, then I felt relieved and walked away smiling.

Why couldn’t you reply and what was your role as a facilitator?

I help them [participants] get whatever is inside them out without influencing them. I wouldn’t tell them what to say, they could say whatever they wanted and answer each other. I know a lot about the conflict from history books and other resources and I’ve been through the program long enough to know what each would say and how each would reply. Many times the girls would say something that is historically incorrect, both Palestinians and Israelis, but I couldn’t correct them or tell them. For example, one girl said that the Lebanese are the ones that planned and executed the massacre of Sabra and Shatila,20 I know that this is not true and I wanted to say something but I couldn’t so I had to wait for the Arab girl to answer her but she doesn’t know enough. It was frustrating for me.

There were other times where the discussion would get stuck and I would have the answer, but I wanted them to find it out for themselves instead of me telling them. They get to a point where they no longer talk about history, but about their feelings, about themselves, not about facts. They talked about a lot of dates like 1948,21 1967 and many other numbers that I didn’t even know about…they talked about anything to prove that the other is wrong. Eventually they came to the conclusion that even if they talked about history for a hundred more years we would not find a solution. It was hard for me because I was in their place and I know the enormous amount of pressure on them. They would start to cry, especially when two of them are talking one-on-one in a mirroring session.

What is the "mirroring" technique?

Let's say two girls want to talk to each other but they don't know how to get their thoughts across to each other. They only want to talk at each other and don't want to listen. For example, if a Palestinian-Israeli and an Israeli girl want to talk, [in the mirroring technique] the Arab-Israeli girl says a sentence and the Israeli has to repeat the same sentence that the Arab-Israeli said. Then the girl that started talking has to listen and repeat what the second girl said. Knowing that she will have to repeat the sentence, she listens to what the person is saying without thinking about how she would have wanted to answer. Both have a lot to say to each other. If I only think about how I will reply to what you say, then that means that I haven’t listened to you, I will only think about my argument. But because I have to repeat what you say, I listen carefully to every word. I have to listen and feel your words coming out of my mouth, in my own voice. For example, say I am a Jew and you’re an Arab, you’d say: all the Jews are murderers. I would have to say: you say that all Jews are murderers. I have to hear this about myself in my voice. That’s why the girls would start crying, because when they repeat the sentence, they feel it.

How do you think the "mirroring technique" affects the general feeling or atmosphere of the group?

We don’t start this process right away; it usually takes place later in the first week after they have gotten to know each other and want to start talking about these issues. Those girls are eighteen and nineteen, they grew up on certain teachings and beliefs, and -- for example, I myself know my history by heart because we’ve been fed that information since we were kids, so the girls are not willing to listen to the other say something different. They start listening to each other and this is the key. If I don’t know you and don’t want to listen to you or understand you, how will I be able to connect with you? How will I be able to convince you…maybe I don’t have to convince you but at least get it through to you? When they sit face to face and they look into each other’s eyes, you no longer can tell that this is a Jew and this is an Arab. They say the same sentences…you start feeling that they have become one. Just repeating a sentence that you don’t want to repeat is an accomplishment because maybe you wouldn’t have said it ever in your life. Could you imagine a Jewish girl saying: all Jews are terrorists? Impossible in a normal situation. When she says it, she feels it and feels why the other side is saying it and feels the other side...then they cry. Everybody in the room listens to the two girls mirroring and they don’t jump in whenever they want to say something, but listen.

What did the people around you think when they knew about your involvement?

At first I was very afraid to tell anyone. The programs I’ve been to were different, and I used to feel differently. It was the first time that I lived in the same house with them [the Jews], eat together and go to places together. It was the first time that I was in the same small place all the time with them. Before going to Building Bridges, there was a school exchange once where we went to visit an Israeli school and we met the students for like half an hour but it was from a distance, we barely said hello but we didn’t get to know each other. Whereas in this program we lived in the same place, we talked about our lives. Some of them are even my best friends now, like Eliana and Adva, who are Jews. But I am afraid to tell anyone here that hasn’t been through the program. I tell them [Adva and Eliana] everything about me and I know everything about them.

We were together in New York and went shopping. People would ask us, "Where are you from?’ and I would say, “Palestine.” Then they would ask one of them [an Israeli] and she would say, “Israel.” People would get confused and ask again to confirm that they heard us correctly.

This year in Denver, I met a woman that asked me where I’m from and I said, “Palestine.” She said, “You mean Israel.” I said, “No, Palestine.” Then she asked Eliana where she’s from and she said, “I’m from Israel.” So the woman said, “You mean Palestine.” Eliana said: “No, Israel.” The woman was confused because we were friends. Even the open- minded outside world could not imagine that we could be together. We had to stop in Holland to take another flight on our trip to the States this year. They [Holland airport personnel] saw my ID and saw Yoa'ad’s ID. She has an Israeli passport. They asked us the routine security questions, then the guy said, "I want to ask you a question for myself and you don’t have to answer, how come you’re friends? I see both of you killing each other on TV, how are you together now?!"

What do your friends think when you tell them about this work? That you live with Israelis in the same place…?

They don’t know that, I don’t tell them that there are Israelis there; I only say that we are Palestinians, Palestinian Israelis and Americans because they will not accept it. It is difficult to say that I have a Jewish friend. I know because before joining the program I used to think that Jews were just dogs… I didn’t look at them the way I do today. My friends think that I’m wasting my time, that I’m not doing anything useful. This is what I used to think about peace camps before I was involved in the program: that the Jews’ only mission is to slaughter people.

It’s not easy at all to say I have a Jewish friend or say that I am going to a camp in America with Jews. First of all they will think that you sold your cause. There are a lot of closed-minded people that think like that. I had a friend that knew about the program, so when I told her I was going, she said: are you crazy? Do you still want to go meet them when they want to bomb the Aqsa?22 How can you still think of peace with them? When you say the word Jew, the first thing that comes to their mind is the ones that want to bomb the Aqsa or kill the children of Gaza and Jenin. They can never think that a Jew could be your age and be like you.

What about your family? What did they think of your work?

My brother who is now studying in America had always been involved in such programs. He was involved in a program called NIR School23 since he was twelve. Then my twin brother and sister were also involved in the same program since they were very young, so they are used to the idea. When I talk about the program they tell me that they heard the same things in their program, it’s as if all of them learned the same answers. The same with us, we all say the same thing because we live in the same environment, lived the same history so we have the same answers. NIR School is a bigger program so they have a lot of friends there. They meet in Turkey and there are kids from different countries like Egypt and Cyprus. My youngest brother was also involved in a summer camp that had Palestinian-Israeli participants, and those are difficult to meet with as well because we cannot reach them. He knows what a Jew is and what a Palestinian Israeli is, they are Arab-Palestinians that live inside Israel.

What are other challenges that you’ve faced?

There is no support at all from the ones around you, your friends. Maybe family supports me a little but they are always afraid, and keep warning me not to talk about certain things or to say certain things. Same with the follow-up meetings that are close to being impossible; I mean, I need to take six taxis to get to Jerusalem and it’s all illegal.24 In a normal situation, going to Jerusalem usually takes around an hour and a half but now it takes me five to six hours. I sit at checkpoints for hours, but now I don’t go through the checkpoint, I take the ways around it through Tulkarm25 because [the Israeli DCO] does not give us permits anymore. It’s been a year since I went through the Hamra26 checkpoint. I take the long road to Anabta,27 then to Tulkarm to get to Ramallah. I don’t tell anybody here about what’s inside me; I don’t tell them what happened at camp. If they ask me I just say, “I enjoyed it” at the most. Unless I find someone that understands, which is rare, I might tell them a little about camp. I don’t blame the people but I blame the situation they live in. If there was peace and people were able to go to each other…I mean before the intifada28 the people from Afula were always in Jenin every Saturday. It was enough to know that we could go to them and they could come to us. When you can go to Haifa and Tel Aviv anytime, you can see the humans there, but when all you see of them are soldiers in tanks and planes, armed and roaming around as if they are going to war with another army -- this is the only image we have of them -- so I can't say to my friends that I was in a summer camp with Jews.

Did this work bring you to meet with someone you never would have met otherwise or brought you to places that you would not have been to otherwise?

Yes, a settler. I don’t know where she’s from exactly, but she’s from around Jerusalem or Bethlehem, not around Jenin. Both of us were shocked the first time we met. She was always around me, making sure that we are alike. She would ask me questions like, "What do you eat for breakfast?" I would say, "Hummus and yogurt…etc." She would ask, "Do you have bread and meat?!" You can never imagine how she was asking those questions... She would always sit next to me and touch my clothes, asking me about everything, she was afraid of me. She was exploring me like a child exploring something new. Once she showed me an earring that she had bought from Jerusalem. I told her I buy similar things from Jerusalem as well; she was surprised that I go to Jerusalem! She even told me that she never imagined that there were people like me in Jenin. She never thought that there would be people she could talk to. The last thing she ever imagined was meeting someone from Jenin; she said she only saw people from Jenin on TV carrying guns and fighting the soldiers. She was watching me even when I was drinking water so I said to her: "Rest assured, I am human!" I do not blame her, her parents never let her go out and get on busses or do things. There were two other very religious Jewish girls that kept Kosher. One of them kept calling me, “my terrorist friend,” because I was from Jenin. She always says what her community taught her about us, but she always told me: "I don’t see this in you, you are a good person". She became a very good friend of my sister, Amira, who was at camp this year. They spent a lot of time together exploring one another…it was a unique thing.

It was the first time that we had a settler and religious girls in camp. They had no idea that there was such a thing as Palestine! I thought that they were mocking us at first, or trying to prove that we do not exist. One of them truly did not know that there is a Palestine; she used to think that if you look up the word Israel in the dictionary, you would find the word Palestine as an explanation. She truly didn’t know, she wasn’t making it up. I asked her, "Where do I live then?" and she said, "I don’t know, Jordan?" I told her, "No I live in Jenin." Then she said, "I know, but are there people there?" But I don’t blame her. This is what is good about camp because she went back and told her friends at the service year29 that there is a Palestine. They gave her a lot of trouble. They called her a liar and told her that she was brainwashed at camp. She became supportive of the Palestinian cause and she is a religious person living among religious people. Can you imagine the amount of risks she takes when she tells the people around her that she met a Palestinian from Jenin? There is no support.

What are your next projects or what are you doing next?

We had a follow-up meeting in a place next to Hadera.30 It was very good but not everyone could reach the place. It took my sister and me eleven hours to get there. We left at four in the morning and got there at three in the afternoon. As I told you, I cannot pass any checkpoint, I don’t have a permit. I used to have a permit to Ramallah but they don’t give it to us anymore. I have to take roads that zigzag away from the checkpoints. However, we were caught in Beit Hanina,31 but we explained that we were here as part of the peace camp, we pretended we don’t speak Arabic. After they saw our US visas,32 they let us through. He joked with us saying, “We love you peace people!” It wasn’t a soldier, it was a regular policeman. We were supposed to take a taxi to go to Adva’s house, she’s a staff member of the program, but on the way they were checking every car, so I thought: great, they let us go the first time at the checkpoint so we’ll get caught and get in trouble this time!! So instead we went to the church of the Holy Sepulcher.33 I was so scared every time I saw soldiers. It was the first time I felt this way because I was alone with my sister and there was no one to help me in case anything happened. My cell phone had no service because Jawwal34 does not have service in that area. It was the first time that I felt afraid while being in my land. We were hiding in the Holy Sepulcher, in the church, because we had no place to go, so one policeman noticed that we spent a long time there so he asked us if everything was ok. I was shaking but I said yes. You should have seen my face, I told him, yes, so he would go away. We stayed there from ten in the morning till three. The soldiers were everywhere -- in my face. It was fear that I never felt before. I started thinking, they will imprison me for a year; they will search my bag thinking I was carrying bombs. This was all I could think of. Eventually we got to the meeting place but some girls could not get through the checkpoints because they got closed right after we left. There was also a girl from Ramallah that couldn’t get out. All the Palestinians did their best and still could not make it. Some girls were in shock after they came back from camp, they changed. The religious girl's parents would not let her come to the meeting because she found out about Palestine, which her parents have been keeping away from her for years. Imagine living with your parents not telling you that in the land you are living on were people, it’s not easy to discover that and get in trouble with your family and friends, that’s why her parents didn’t let her come to the meeting, so she would not find out more. This year we had Americans in the program, so maybe we will meet for follow-up outside of the country because for us going into Israel is not easy. So maybe it will be in Europe or Egypt, anywhere so that we can meet.

What is the most important thing for you to achieve for your people and country?

Even before joining Building Bridges, when I was in France, it was important for me that those people inside, the people that are far from us, should know about us. Those people are the Israelis and the Arab-Israelis because even the Arab-Israelis do not know anything about us. They should know that we do not hate life and we do not want to just blow ourselves up, they should know why we do that because if they were able to understand us then they would be able to help us. For someone to wrap a bomb around himself and explode, it is the loudest cry for help. Why did he blow himself up? He’s telling them to look at us, “Look at me, why I did this and help the people I left.” It is the greatest sacrifice. He left everything to tell the other side to take a look at him and why he’s doing what he’s doing so they could help the people that stayed behind, not to do the same thing. People should know that a suicide bomber doesn’t do it because he hates life or does it for money --, he has lost his life, what can he do with the money even if he got millions? The Israelis and the Arab Israelis should know that those people are in pain and are crying out for their help.

What do you consider a small success?

To get to a point where the girls of the camp are able to influence their communities. I do not expect that they change them. First they change from the inside. For me, I consider it a great success that a girl finds out that Palestine is not the Arabic translation for Israel! It is a great success that a girl that is almost twenty years old knows that there is Palestine and tells her friends. Also it would be a success if a Palestinian could tell her friends that she has a Jewish friend, which is a hard thing. We have to come to understand that the people’s rejection of the current situation is the solution. The solution is not up to the leaders. All the revolutions were carried out by the people that objected to their situation. No leader ever said: "I don’t like the situation so I will change it". It is always the people that make the change, they are the spark.

What does it take to get to what you want for your people?

It’s not a difficult thing. Building Bridges had, let’s say, five hundred girls, if they have not influenced anyone, they have at least been influenced themselves. Other programs have another five hundred, maybe more. The NIR School program has thousands. There’s Seeds of Peace,35 and Face to Face.36 If there were more of these, there could be a difference. If there was at least one participant from each program that could make a difference. Palestine and Israel are small countries on the map and the population is not very big, so five hundred people could make a difference in the elections. If there were one or two thousand among the Palestinians working for peace, it would make a big difference.

What is the ideal situation for you, what do you wish to accomplish?

It was my dream to take back all of our land, Palestine as it is on the map in one piece. But after I went to camp and visited them where they live, saw they had a life, they had work…their life is just like mine. It’s not like they could move if they didn’t like the place, like some of the settlers do, there are villages and towns that have been established. I don’t want to stay living in fantasies; what I had imagined is now impossible, it’s a fantasy. The only solution is to stop slaughtering each other because no one is helping us; even the world is tired of our trouble. I mean America supports them [the Israelis] a little, then the Europeans support us a little, until they got fed up with us. We’ve been fighting each other for more than fifty years. We should just be able to live with each other, what’s wrong with that? We used to live together before there was an Israel, there used to be a lot of Jews. The problem is that their state is founded on religion. What about the Christians and the Muslims wanting to found a state? Why should it be a state of one religion ruling, why can’t all live as different religions and not one religion ruling over the others? This is not impossible or a fantasy because it happened before. Many nations had lived in Palestine, it was controlled by different religions over history and this is what the Jews do not understand. This is a place for three religions, the Muslims want it, the Christians want it and the Jews want it, so why should we go through all the trouble when it will belong to no one in the end? Should we keep killing each other for it? The only solution is to accept the idea that this land does not belong to anyone, it belongs to everyone, and it should be open for everyone to live in.

You talk about all three religions living together on this land. Where do you see yourself in this the picture?

That I will have friends from all religions, from all three “nations:” Palestinians, Jews and Palestinian Israelis. I won’t consider just sticking with my community as a Christian Palestinian and think we are the better of all. I think that the three religions make a triangle; Islam, Christianity and Judaism. If the Jews stop fighting us we will start fighting each other, I mean if the Israelis do not invade Jenin one day, there will definitely be a fight among the residents in Jenin… there will always be blood! [joking] I think I’m starting to mess up. But seriously, we shouldn’t fool ourselves; the occupation is not the only reason… The occupation must have seen our weakness that’s why it came in. Why do you think they came to Palestine? Because they saw that we are weak and constantly fighting among ourselves, otherwise the occupation would have been in another country, not here. The first day the Jews pulled out of Bethlehem and the Palestinian Authority came in, I was studying at St. Joseph’s boarding school there, we were out on the streets celebrating that day. It was around Christmas time and we watched as the Palestinian soldiers were marching in, we were throwing candies at them, then they demolished the Israeli police station by the Nativity Church37 and we were all rejoicing. The first thing I heard that day was: we are going to break your cross... first the Jews and you are next. At that point I lost hope, why am I so happy if they are putting us into categories? “First the Jews and then you!" I started thinking that maybe it wasn’t best that the Jews leave because if they leave, then I will be next. If the Jews leave then I think there will be no one left on this land, isn’t this supposed to be the “Holy Land?” But I think that this land is cursed, everybody wants to take control over it even if they kill each other, for religious reasons they would do anything.

What does the word peace mean to you?

Peace? I hear a lot about it, we talk a lot about it but I never imagined what it would be like living it. I only imagine what it would be like but I don’t think we will actually live it, I think it’s difficult to happen, very far off. Peace has been a dream for me, just a dream, to be able to live in one land no matter who’s living in the house next to me or who am I going to school with. Just like the Palestinian-Israeli and the Israelis are living in the same place, I imagine the three people living together the same way. They are originally only two people but the situation made them three, making the Palestinian-Israeli the third one. Without that, I don’t think there will be peace

Do you think there will be peace in your lifetime?

As I said, peace will not be among Jews and Christians or Muslim and Christian. As I said, there are three elements or constants in this equation. No matter how much we change it there will always be the three elements in this equation. Of course there can be peace but only if the people move and do something, because nothing will happen if we sit at home and do nothing. It is also not only about the people wanting it, the governments should help, if not help, at least not oppose. As I said before, it is up to the people to make the change but the support of the government is also important. However I don’t see that support, neither from the governments nor from the outside world, as if they were happy watching us in conflict. It looks like I will be put in prison for this!!! [Joking]

How do you think the next five or ten years will look?

The way I see it is that things are getting worse. When someone was killed in the first intifada,38 we used to mourn for three days, even if he was from Gaza, which is far from here. But now, even if your neighbor gets killed, it’s become a normal thing. If we would mourn for three days for everyone that would die, then the days of the year would not be enough. People’s feelings have died, I feel like it’s a process to push people to lose their feelings, to get to a point where it doesn’t make you feel anything if you see a dead person. They [the Israelis] got us to a point were we feel dead from inside. They kill us from the inside, we don’t have to stop breathing to be dead, and we can be dead while we are still alive. For example, if you are in Jenin and you can’t get to Ramallah, is that considered living? Aren’t you imprisoned? Dead? This is how I imagine the next ten years being if no one would move to make peace. As you see, everybody is after their own benefits out for their own benefit and no one cares. There are a lot of people that are benefiting from this conflict.

Which international audience do you think has the most influence here?

The Jews love the Americans, so if anyone could have an influence on the Jews it would be America, not Europe or other countries like Russia that do nothing except talk but do nothing. A country like America is enough. That’s why I like that camp takes place in America because it shows the people that are against us who we truly are. History has proven that even in the United Nations, America is controlling the whole world. America is the only country that has influence here, they could either support the continuation of the conflict or put it to an end. They could simply tell the Israelis that they will cut off the weapon supplies and support unless they stop killing Palestinians. The Jews count a lot on America.

What do you think is the biggest misconception among international audience about the conflict?

First of all they think that the Palestinians have no feelings, they think that we can easily die for anything. They misunderstand the meaning behind those operations. They think that the suicide bombers just want to die. This is what the Israeli media shows -- that the Palestinian people send their children to get killed. When they show on the news about an explosion, they show you pictures of children getting hurt, but they won’t show you about what made this bomber do this. The image that the world gets is that we are gangs of terrorists, retarded. The first time we went to camp they thought that we would come wearing the Hijab,39 they didn’t know that there would be civilized people like themselves. The idea they have of us is that we live in tents and men are married to four women. They think that Palestinians are the “chicken thieves.”40

What do you think is a misconception among Israelis?

They don’t even have an idea because they do not even know we exist. This is what I found out this year because in previous years the participants had a fair bit of background. This year I had more time to watch than to speak, so I realized that I feel sorry for them because a girl that’s twenty years old, does not know that there is such a thing as Palestine! Shouldn’t she know? So why do we need to correct that? All we had to do this year was talk about ourselves. I mean, when my sister said, “I am from Palestine,” that girl was shocked. She thought that she was talking about a land that existed before Israel that was called Palestine, but now it is Israel. First we need to deal with getting to know about us and then we can handle what they do not understand or “the misconceptions.”

What are the misconceptions among Palestinians about Israelis?

I can speak for myself; I used to think that they were all soldiers. There’s another naïve but emotional concept which is that we think that we should take all of the lands. It’s become a dream and everybody can dream, but we just can’t realize that it’s impossible. We are fighting in vain. The ones that blow themselves up think that they want to liberate all of Palestine, the lands of 1948 and not just the 1967 lands. We should understand that we are fighting in vain because they have a life here now in their villages and cities. We should accept that reality. That is our problem, that we don’t accept it. We keep hiding the truth and live in dreams.

What are the most important lessons you learned about yourself?

I surprised myself. I always said that we need to get back the lands of 1948; I never realized that I could accept the truth; I used to hide it inside me. Just like the people of 1948, they realized after spending a long time away from home that they will not come back as they were expecting, so why are they still keeping the keys to their homes? They keep it to live in their dreams. I was living in my own dreams. I definitely was shocked when I was faced with the reality, but I found that I was strong enough. What do you think makes me go to Jerusalem? It is to prove to myself before proving to them that I can and will get inside Israel, I could get to the land that I want to get to, even if to just be able to walk on it. I was very happy when I got to Jerusalem because I got there -- I felt I achieved something by myself. I learned that I am strong enough to accomplish whatever I set my mind to. I start with small things that grow bigger. I used to live without aspirations just like others.

What have you learned about your community?

That they are really poor people. It was the first time that I really spent time with them day-to-day because I used to go from home to university and back, I didn’t go out… but now I take their roads, meaning the public transportation. When I had to take six minibuses, I had to go through what they go through, listen to their conversations, their suffering. There was one woman with two children that was praying and calling on God to help. This shows you how simple those people are. It’s not like there are two armies fighting and do not care about the regular people. Those people are simple, pure at soul and have big hearts. I saw another woman telling the soldier that was throwing away all her stuff: "May God keep your family for you, please don’t do that." She didn’t curse him, she was begging him, but he wouldn’t listen. She knows that this is her land but she accepts the reality. They are really simple, they do not have the desire to just own, they only want to live. I think if the roads were open for them to go around freely, there would never be any suicide bombers, because it is the pressure that pushes them to do it. I mean taking six rides to get to Jerusalem is just too much.

What did you learn about the other side, the Israelis?

That they are stupid. They don’t have the mind to think. They should understand why those [suicide bombers] go in. Israelis are just fed information. They all think the same way as if they were all copies of each other. I’ve been in this program for three years and I know what they would say. They keep saying this is a circle and you have to stop so that we stop. They are not people that think, they are people that are told. When they speak, they don’t speak from their minds but from what’s been planted in their heads. This is their problem. I mean that girl doesn’t even know there is a Palestine…I feel sorry for her, someone should help them understand gradually that first there is a Palestine and then that there is a people on it.

What do you imagine the solution would be?

First of all, and to be realistic, forget the romantic “let’s all live together” visions. They should open the roads so we can go wherever we want. I don’t remember the last time I was in Hebron or Jericho. We don’t want to go to Tel Aviv. At least let us move freely inside the West Bank or Palestine or whatever it’s called-- all those names on the news mix you up! First of all just let us move freely, it will ease our problems and theirs. Why are they putting up walls? It will only make matters worse for them. My sister Amira told them [the Israelis] even if you cut your country into pieces and hang it up in the air, we will reach you no matter where you go. This is not the solution; they shouldn’t hide, they should face us. They just need to open the roads and no one will even think about a bombing there.

Is there anything you want to talk about or any question that you were expecting?

Yes, I want to talk about the wall.41 This is what we talk about everyday. They think this is the solution but it’s not. Just like it took years of trouble in Germany until they removed it, the same and ever worse will happen to us. The Jews think that the wall is the answer but it only brings more trouble. Just like in Gaza, they surround themselves in all kinds of walls around their settlements but the Palestinians used some kind of rockets that are able to penetrate those walls. This only gives the Palestinians more reasons to think of other ways to hurt them more. This is not a solution; they just can’t put us in this prison. They don’t let us go to Jerusalem even though it is a holy place but I realize that not everybody is religious. All our needs are in Jerusalem, like the church court for example.42

What does Jerusalem mean to you personally?

I am not a religious person, though I do believe in my religion, but I love being in that place, I feel comfort and purity from the inside. You feel that the place is sacred; you can feel it in its air. They cannot forbid us from going there, it’s impossible. Every time I go I find that they’ve made it even harder. The last time I was there the wall had not gotten to Beit Hanina, but now it’s so close to being closed completely. Maybe the next time I will come I will have to jump over the wall.