Shlomo ZagmanRealistic Religious Zionism, Mosaica |
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Identity and Religion and Settlements and Zionism:
“ I grew up outside the Green Line of 1967, though settlement in Gush Etzion began before the State of Israel was established. Lands were legally purchased there, they were barren then and agriculturally-orientated settlements were founded on them. In 1948 Gush Etzion fell and since 1967 the rallying cry of the regional council has been “Your children will return to their own land.” People grow up there with that heritage of clutching to the land, of returning to the settlements, to the lands, to a land that is ours. There’s a path nearby called “Trail of the Patriarchs”, it's the path that Abraham took from Be’er Sheva to Mount Moriah - you are taught to have a religious bond to living there. When you get older it links to having political awareness and naturally to the National Religious Party and the right-wing parties who regard the return to Zion as a historical process of the return of a people to its land. Despite the problem the Arab population living there poses, [this population] is perceived as an obstacle that needs to be faced, but in no way does it suggest that this process – or this "right" - must be relinquished. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
“ in 2000 I met a religious man, who is my age, and there was true dialogue and friendship between us that I consider real friendship. For the first time I began seeing things a different way. I began to view my previous perspective as ignoring something right in front of me, like colors you don’t want to see so you take them out of the spectrum of your vision, making yourself blind to certain colors. I’m talking about how I regarded the neighboring Arab population. I knew them not really as a group of people with their own lives, but rather as figures used for work – I saw them at work, as laborers, janitors, I saw them at school, as manual workers, doing the work that my parents and the rest of our parents didn’t want to do. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Personal Transformation and Zionism:
“ I had opinions I grew up with and I didn’t really ever examine them for myself; I accepted a viewpoint that was created by someone else. My conclusion is that the price that we’re paying to hold these lands is so high, it’s actually at the cost of Zionist existence in Israel. I think it’s worthwhile [to cede them] from a practical standpoint, not from a humanist or forbearing approach. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Community Responses to Peace Work:
“ [The Movement for Realistic Religious Zionism's] first activity was to publicly call on the national-religious [Jewish] population living in the settlements. We did it through the newspapers, calling on them to acknowledge the necessity of giving up part of the lands of Greater Israel in order to sustain the Israeli Jewish state in its [internationally] recognized borders so as to start focusing on Israel's social problems. Such problems are neglected now because of the political situation and the conflict, and the many resources allotted to the conflict [...] We circulated a petition calling on the settlers to recognize the State's obligation to leave part of the Territories. After the petition was published and there was an interview with us on the news, some people in my settlement took offense, as they viewed it as a slap in the face. To them it was as though I was saying I took the blinders off my eyes, and I now see what I was blind to before while they're still blind and need to open their eyes. I received a few harsh and inappropriate reactions. It’s not that I was disappointed in them, because I know these people to be extremists. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Obstacles and Challenges and Settlements:
“ I left [Allon Shevut] with my wife and daughter. My reason was ideological, in order not to live under occupation sponsorship. We moved closer to where my wife’s parents live, so for her it was because of practical rather than political reasons. It was a very difficult decision, financially. Housing in Israel is much more expensive and it was hard for us to afford an apartment in Israel. The state encourages people to live in Judea and Samaria and there are grants and loans from the government. It amazes me is that even today when the Prime Minister talks of paying a price for unilateral separation; there is still a very attractive offer to settle in the Jordan Valley, including settlements in Samaria. People who go to live there today get a grant from the state, the state pays their tuition fees, and they get help with rent. Even in Gaza, people received all sorts of financial benefits to settle there. How can the state talk one way and act another? It's very strange. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Human Rights and Language and Democracy:
“ Take the period prior to the disengagement from Gaza and the Right's struggle against it. They [the Israeli Right] said, 'What about human rights? Expelling people and demolishing their homes is a human rights violation.' In other words, "consider" the residents of Gush Katif's human rights; all of a sudden they were talking about democracy, about human rights, civil rights, equality and such terms, but only when it applied to them. When Arab-Israeli citizens are treated like second class citizens and lack equal civil rights, they [the Right] don't listen to these terms; they aren't interested. But they do acknowledge these terms when they need to, then they know all about the Basic Laws [filling the function of a constitution] in a democratic state. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Personal Transformation and Security:
“ After passing the checkpoint I saw a little girl and an old man sitting on the floor, they were being detained.[...] suddenly the stereotype was shattered but it was a result of discussion and an examination of reality followed by seeing such an image. It was a hot day, the man and girl were suffering and at once I understood the meaning underlying the example of that elderly man and little girl: the majority of the Palestinians live in such a harsh reality. I wonder, what would I do if I were them? Would I want to change places? I don't want to be responsible for this reality. This reality is only meant to bring security, which is a good purpose, but inside this apparatus a lot of injustice is done, and I don't want to be responsible for it. I can only imagine myself in that situation. I would give up; I would be in despair, especially if I was an elderly person. Younger people still have a distant future and hope for things to improve but I think older people don't see the change that could come so they struggle less for change. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
“ You hear that "they [Palestinians] have it so good", but would anybody want to trade places with them? Is it that good? Really? People talk of democracy, but a true democrat wants all people to benefit from democracy and be citizens of a democratic state. Democrats can't claim to be thinking democratically if democracy is limited to them and they think it is just fine for other people to live in dictatorships, under military rule. No. That isn't democratic. You must aspire to have every person become a citizen of a democratic state. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Religion and Political Peace Processes/Political Leadership:
“ I think that currently religion is fueling the extremists both among Jews and among Muslims. Extremist orthodox Jews transform religion into irreconcilable fundamentalism – into control over lands. Fundamental Islam transforms religion to be uncompromising about control over Palestine and nationalism. We know for certain that both religions have content that is different than that. There are different kinds of orthodox followers and there are different religious streams that can converse. They must be addressed, given a speaking platform and assisted in disseminating their perspective. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Obstacles and Challenges and Identity:
“ The war [Lebanon war July 2006] created a problem. Suddenly war broke out and in the Jewish group people felt united and a sense of shared fate though we know that [Palestinian Arab Citizens of Israel] also were hurt by the war – missiles were fired at the Galilee killing Arabs too. You would assume that the [Israeli] Arabs would then be on your side and regard Nasrallah and Hezbollah as enemies, while what you hear is that this isn't true, and [your perspective] shouldn't take that for granted, it isn't necessarily a logical inference. Then [Jewish] people say, 'If you identify with my enemy, how can I talk to you?' [...] It makes people desperate and they feel dialogue doesn't contribute much and is therefore unnecessary – a waste of energy and emotions. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
“ Peace is the end of a process that hasn’t even started. The process we are trying to embark on is to acknowledge the necessity of separating, the necessity of the state of Israel to end the Occupation and to invest in Israel's internal problems, with of course, security measures. Of course my hope for the long term is a step necessary for future peace. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
Media and International Involvement:
“ Come and see things for yourself…It isn't that they are seeing lies, but a one-sided approach is what you learn from the media. I can't really complain because this conflict echoes loudly all over the world. Nearly everywhere in the world people who watch television and are media-oriented know what's going on here, more or a less. It might not be true for the nuances or small scale politics, but it's true for the general picture. People are getting a certain picture from a very certain angle and it isn't a good picture. I think people should come and get to know things [here], if they're interested. ” [Source in Complete Interview]
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