Interview with Yafit Gamila Biso

Please tell me a little about your background and how you became involved in peace work.

My name is Yafit Gamilah - I like the name Gamilah - Biso. I was born in Damascus. My neighbors were Palestinians, Muslims, Christians, Druze,1 and the majority were Jewish, but it varied. Most of my friends were Palestinians from the two largest refugee camps there, al-Yarmukh and al-Palestine.2 In Syria there are schools for Jews up to junior high school.3 After junior high, whoever continues studying goes to government schools. So I went to high school with Palestinian and Syrian girls - girls like me. I never thought about it, except during religion class, when we were told, “You’re Jewish, get out.” There were only two of us Jewish girls at that high school. Christian girls went to Christianity classes and Muslim girls went to Islam classes and we Jews sat outside. When I got married and began working, I had Palestinian partners; I worked alongside them in many fields, in sales, fashion, marketing - in every field - and they became my friends.

When I arrived in Israel the first business I opened was a large sewing factory in Tel-Aviv. I had almost twenty workers from Gaza. I got on very well with them. There was a period when I even had a partner from Gaza. Look, I’m a daughter of the Arab culture. I’m Israeli and Jewish, and I don’t know whether I’m proud of it or not in view of the operative policies. I’m sometimes ashamed of being Israeli when I see that an Israeli killed a little girl, whose only fault was that she went to school that morning. That’s what brought me to all these activities.

As an Israeli who paid a high price for coming to Israel, I care; I care to see the State of Israel as exactly what I envision. Obviously I don’t expect a state according to my personal characteristics or desires but it is important for me that Israel come across to the world as a democracy and truly humanitarian - but not only nominally, or in quotation marks-- not a democracy of Jews over Arabs. I think that contradicts the laws of nature and humanity. I got involved with our Palestinian neighbors - I call them my brothers-- and I felt that they were being discriminated against. That’s how I slowly became involved in this work.

Where did you begin your activities?

I started small. I had many connections in Gaza, in the Territories.4 During the quiet periods I used to drive out there and visit, helping whoever needed help here and there-help getting to Israel for some sort of treatment, or for work. I’m not a political person, and anyone who knows me will tell you I’ve never participated in elections. I’ve been here for 19 years and never took part in elections. That might sound strange, I go to demonstrations but I don’t take part in elections. I’m not interested in who is prime minister. I’m interested in human rights, in particular the rights of children and women, because they suffer the most here in this bloody conflict.

When did you first get involved and what were you doing?

I was only slightly active until around the first intifada,5 even the second.6 During the first one it was basically employing workers and taking care of them, picking them up, driving them, putting them up; they slept at my house so that they wouldn’t have to commute. If anybody needed help there they called me and I assisted in everything I could, errands here or there.

During the second intifada I found myself having to apologize to everyone for being Israeli, Jewish, apologizing to the world for what we are doing. A little before the second intifada began, I worked in a few places. Prior to the second intifada I worked in international brokerage. I was the liaison between business representatives from Israel and the Arab countries. I worked with Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians, people from the Gulf. I simply had to apologize in front of everybody for Israeli policies. They saw Israel sealing up houses, demolishing houses; our Israeli soldier is depicted all over the world as a soldier with a tank pursuing a child with a rock in hand. It’s horrific. We failed somewhere in providing public relations. I’m not justifying house demolitions, but if you do demolish houses-which is forbidden anyhow-at least explain why you're doing it. At least provide an alternative before demolishing it. Don’t demolish the house, just leaving a family homeless in the winter, without a roof.

Tell me about the activities you are involved with?

It began with participating in demonstrations and organizing them. At first I started out with Peace Now,7 and went along with Gush Shalom8 until I got into it intensively. I was a quiet participant because I’m a single mother so I never had time. I worked two jobs and I had children at home so I couldn’t go to demonstrations or activities like I do now. I assisted anyone I could on a humanitarian level. There were villages I’d go visit; I’m familiar with many people in villages and they know that they have an Israeli friend that comes and goes, if they need anything from Israel. So they would come to me for advice and I would help. That was how I helped. I’d take my children along. They were family visits, not necessarily political work. It was simply keeping in touch with these people. That’s very important to me.

When the intifada began and the October events9 broke out and Israeli Arabs were killed because of the police’s brutality, you could say that all the baggage I was carrying around in me from being a second-class citizen in Syria exploded. I couldn’t remain silent. I went to demonstrations organized by Gush Shalom and met the Ta’ayush10 activists, and then I went to olive harvests.

Now when I see an activity that really beckons to me and suits me I go regardless of which organization is behind it. I consider the activity’s effect and whether it is really just or not. For example, there was an activity about two years ago on a Friday afternoon, prayer and a demonstration near Jabl Mukkabr.11 In that case someone had sold their land, so I had nothing to demonstrate for! Some things are just and some aren’t. Someone who sold their land and left with the money, with millions, for Australia, and now the neighbors are suffering because there is going to be a Jewish neighborhood in the middle of their neighborhood, well I have nothing to demonstrate about. It won’t help, someone sold out in this case; it’s them and their conscience. I’m sorry for the neighbors, but I can’t help them. Why should I come if they took the money and left for Australia? This is a lost battle and I won’t join in.

I will demonstrate when lands are appropriated and olive trees are uprooted; for me every olive tree is a child. I told that to Chaim Yavin12 when I took him up to Jayous.13 There were still olive trees lying about. They take the big ones to sell and the little ones are thrown aside. I stood there and shivered and tears came, real tears, and he said, "What’s wrong?" So I said, "It hurts me every time to see this sight. Every tree is a child. It’s the corpse of a child. The tree was uprooted, at least take it. The Nazis murdered children but they didn’t show them, they buried them in mass graves.

Are you comparing the Israelis’ treatment of the Palestinians with the Nazis treatment of the Jews?

In a few aspects, yes. I’m giving examples. I am horrified by what I see in the villages on a daily basis and I’m confused myself. I don’t know whether it’s like the Nazis or Apartheid. What I can say is that we make their lives hell. The trees are simply left there for all to see, testament to Israel’s murderous policies. An olive tree feeds a child for a whole year and once you take it, he dies! Dies or becomes a terrorist. Don’t ask later what made a twelve year-old child go and explode at a checkpoint. Don’t ask where he came from. I’m not exaggerating. I’m not exaggerating the number of sick children who come to Israel from the West Bank. A small number, 5-10% comes to Israel for medical treatment. They have to have form 17, the financial obligation form from a health insurance provider, to cross into Israel.14 Not everyone has the opportunity. They just die.

Are you active in helping Palestinians access medical care in Israel?

Yes. I was part of a group from New Profile.15 At the time Noa Mor and her husband and another guy, Tal Gurlitz, sent e-mails that they needed people to come and visit. They said there were some sick people in Tel Hashomer Medical Center16 requesting someone, preferably an Arabic-speaker, to come talk to them, visit, and take care of their needs. It was a very small group at the time of two or three people. We started off slowly and grew, and the group got strong. I used to go to Tel Hashomer four or five times a week. All the mothers had my phone number, the intensive care unit had my number, other units too. If they needed translation at night they called me up -even at two am. I would meet with mothers and doctors for a meeting and translation regarding the child’s condition.

I was active there until the group got stronger and now it’s under the auspices of Medecins Sans Frontieres.17 Then I moved to Wolfson Medical Center,18 which is a little closer to me. After all the pressure, Tel Hashomer was kind enough to employ Arabic speaking nurses around the clock-they don’t need me at two am anymore!

What projects are you currently involved in?

I’m establishing a non-profit organization because over the past three or four years I’ve been very busy transferring patients from the West Bank to hospitals in Israel. I’m not involved in the procedure of obtaining permits, even though I do assist occasionally. It’s important for me that after suffering through the process of receiving the necessary permits a sick child and the accompanying parent be able to reach the hospital. If they cross through Tulkarm checkpoint then their only option is to take a special taxi that costs 250 NIS.19 They can’t travel by bus because an Israeli bus driver wouldn’t let them aboard. If a patient needs transportation, people know to call me. I pick them up and take them to Tel Hashomer Medical Center, or I arrange for someone else to do it if I can’t, or if I have financial difficulties. Sometimes I have no money for gas. This happens to us all-you need a lot of gas for these trips. A trip means leaving my apartment in Rishon LeTzion20 and picking people up from the checkpoint in Tulkarm,21 then taking them to Tel Hashomer. Later I return them to Tulkarm. That’s a lot of gas for one trip, and I earn minimum wage. If someone else picks up the patients, I meet them at the hospital and accompany them throughout the treatment, translating or helping them find their way around the hospital. Then we go back. They’re very pleased. That’s what I’ve been doing lately. There’s a high demand for it, more than we can accommodate.

How would you define your work - as peace work or human rights work?

Peace work. In the end we build trust and they can see that there are Israelis who truly care about human rights. We will achieve peace.

What is the connection between human rights work and peace work?

In order to establish a just peace we must ensure the other side’s human rights as well as ours. You can’t differentiate human rights work from peace work, it’s ultimately connected. In order to build peace, or what is termed “trust,” with the other side we must ensure their rights. We can’t just impose our will. Full rights must be ensured, whether it is for children, women or men. It’s all linked; you can’t separate human rights from peace work. This is what I am doing when I work to promote children’s rights to receive medical attention or get an education. It is a brick in the wall of the peace we aspire to construct.

Are you implying your work has no effect in the long run?

My work has an impact on the people over there in the long run, on the other side-the common people, women, children-in the villages I visit. They see you’re persistent and insistent, that you join the olive harvest and the plowing season every year. If they encounter trouble with soldiers you come to help them. This is not long term, this is short term. There are people to talk to on the other side! Success is changing the views of people in the villages, making them look for peace. They no longer think that Israel is a bad problem that needs to be uprooted.

How do you think this furthers peace?

Of course it influences; I’m in touch with people, even with political representatives, people like Mustafa Barghouti22 and others. They aren’t claiming more than their rights. They want a just peace; grant them their rights, return their lands, don’t build walls and steal their water resources and lands. Then they won’t object to living on their side with you living on your side, in your state.

The left-wing organizations’ mistake is that they only do activities in a certain village, that’s it; they demonstrate and leave. They don’t keep in touch, don’t build real friendships. For example, the last village I visited on Friday, I had never set foot there before. I went to visit them yesterday. They saw me return after the demonstration and they weren’t used to that. They’re used to Israelis who come demonstrate and then leave.

Can you explain what you think is problematic about that [Israelis coming to demonstrate in Palestinian villages and then leaving]?

In order to build peace you need to take the steps - human rights is one step for instance. Over the past few years peace movements would come to a village for demonstrations. Very few keep in touch, and that’s usually the organizers or people who have close relations with the village, but the 300-400 participants who come to the demonstration don’t.

What’s problematic about that?

Keeping in touch means slowly building a relationship with our neighbors; it’s not just coming when we are needed and playing the role of the stronger older brother. I want us to be in touch regardless of whether I’m strong and you’re weak, or the opposite. It’s important for me to explain that we seek neighborly relations. I seek their friendship even if I don’t visit once a month. It’s important that we exchange phone numbers and talk from time to time and not come only when there are demonstrations. Maybe in the Israeli daily routine people are too busy to do that. But we need to keep in touch. Palestinian people appreciate that-not people coming, demonstrating and running away.

Tell me about your organization.

I aim to include not only Israelis in it, but according to the law I understand it can only list Israelis. I have no problem with listing only Israelis but the participants will be Palestinians too, and internationals who really want to take part. This organization will first and foremost defend Palestinian children’s rights to health and education, a normal life under an olive tree. We called it the Olive Tree. Part of the organization’s activities support the families of the children who are taken for treatment in Israel. We help their families during the olive harvest or by selling oil. I’ve been doing that for years. I don’t just go and assist during the harvest. After the harvest ends I come to the village and collect gallons of olive oil from the families; every time I come I take 10 gallons with me to sell.

What happens to the proceeds from the sale of the olive oil?

We sell olive oil for the families at all sorts of events sponsored by organizations such as Ta’ayush or the Coalition of Women for Peace. We never take any sort of a commission, not even gas money or travel expenses.

Palestinian farmers have only the land as a source of income. They wait for it from year to year. It isn’t enough that they are prevented from plowing it, we can see now, even Rabbi Arik Asherman23 said that as a result of the neglect of the land the quality of the olives is declining. They haven’t reached their lands in six years so they aren’t plowing or weeding like the land needs. Watering, cleaning, so that it can give the best fruit possible. That isn’t the case anymore. The only thing left is to come once a year and harvest the olives. Every year we come and never know whether we will be able to reach the land the following year.

Do you have fears concerning your activities?

My fear is that in the end, all that I do won’t bear fruit. My fear is that if we don’t have a true and just peace we’ll find ourselves-as the fanatic Palestinians put it-in the sea. The ship that brought us will take us back, I have that fear.

What do you think threatens Israel’s existence, and is it important that it exist here?

Israel can’t continue pigheaded with its killing and land theft policies, violating human rights. It can’t exist among 14 million Arabs here, 14 million Arabs or Christians here.24 If Israel continues its current policies, a day will come when our neighbors won’t be able to tolerate us any longer and we’ll be a mere bite in their meal.

Why do you say that?

I don’t like to get political, but every person has a right to defend their rights and lands. There’s nothing stronger than people and their rights. It’s their land and we’re stealing it.

How does the conflict affect your life?

People who know me know that there’s nothing permanent in my house. I practically live out of suitcases. I don’t know. I’m afraid. I’m afraid that we, Israel, will continue stubbornly with oppression and land expropriations, theft of water resources. This wall is going to kill us all in the end, not only them-us too. We’re tied to each other inseparably.

It’s been very bad for us since the intifada began. The economic situation here in Israel has declined, in terms of tourism but also other things. We’re tied to them in terms of tourism, but not only that, we’re tied to them in every way. When the State of Israel doesn’t permit the establishment of any factories in Palestine for people to work in then they’re certain to infiltrate the border and come work here, so that the Israeli policeman will have work catching them and throwing them in jail. Let them establish factories there and be economically independent. I need them; the minute they have work there they won’t be coming here, they won’t infiltrate the border, they won’t need us.

Which would harm Israel - maintaining or cutting economic relations?

I think that the Israeli economy is tied to the Palestinian economy. From the beginning of the second intifada to the present, our economy has declined because we lost a large part of our market, which was in Palestinian areas. They no longer have money or jobs or consumer power. It also works the other way around.

What gives you strength, what propels you in your work?

What propels me is seeing people there suffering. What pushes me to keep going is when I hear that a family is desperate. They hang on to words, even though sometimes I can’t help them. I’m propelled by the urge to prove to the world, and to the Palestinians in particular, that in Israel there are not only soldiers who kill, but there are people who care. That’s one of the biggest things that drives me.

People think that I go there and push because I love Arabs too much, that I like being among Arabs too much. No. I do love being with Arabs, but I’d like to pay them friendly visits, not fight their battles. I’m driven to show them and prove that there are people in Israel who really want peace and truly care. There’s nothing I can do with the older ones because they’ve been to Israel already and they know what Israelis are. I care about the young children. I collect used toys and go to a kindergarten and gather 100-200 children and speak to them in their own language, in Arabic, and give out the toys. I tell them that the toys are from people in Israel, from Jews, Israelis, that this toy is from a child who gave it up so that they could have a toy, because maybe they have a little more than them. It does something. I came across villages that had never had contact with Israelis apart from soldiers, and it matters. It changes opinions.

To this day I’m in touch with boys for whom I was the first Israeli they could even understand and speak to. I spoke to them in their language and explained things to them. At first they were under the impression that I was Arab, so I stood up to them. I said, “No, I’m not Arab, I’m Jewish-Israeli. I do speak Arabic, it makes both my life and yours easier, but I’m Jewish-Israeli. There’s nothing you can do, you can’t make me an Arab. You must accept me as an Israeli Jew. Then I’ll be with you all the way then. If you continue insisting that I’m Arab, I’m not here.”

Why was it important for you that Palestinians acknowledge you as Israeli?

It’s very important. I’m not embarrassed to count myself as being Arab, a Jewish Arab. As long as I live in this country and am a citizen here I expect my country to behave appropriately. People count you as being one of them if you speak their language, if you identify with their situation; if you are consistent, they can count on you coming when necessary and you are always present and assisting them. “One of us” means that you are very concerned for their wellbeing and there is a sense of love. Sometimes people say, “You can’t be a Jew” or “an Israeli Jew,” “You’re one of us, part of the Arab people.” I tell them, “No. I’m Israeli.” I don’t deny I’m Israeli, that’s a given fact now. I don’t know what the future holds; if Israel continues in the current mode I might change my citizenship, maybe I’ll leave the country.

Why is the differentiation important, why is it important that Palestinians acknowledge that you are Israeli?

It’s important for me to prove to the other side that there are people in Israel who are concerned for them. There are humanitarian people in Israel, we Jews are merciful people. It’s important for me to explain that all my mercy and compassion and goodness and assistance and consistency and stubbornness stems from my being Jewish. It is Judaism that taught me to be merciful and help my neighbors. I think the separation between religion and state is important, differentiating between Judaism as religion and Zionism,25 or Israel as a state. It’s important for me to explain that Israel isn’t all tanks and soldiers running after small children. Israel isn’t just the army. There are law-abiding citizens who are concerned about human rights in Israel. That’s very important for me to clarify. I came to this country and it’s important to me how it is perceived by the world. That is the reason I’m doing all this work. It’s important to me that Israel be portrayed as a humanitarian country and not as a killer. Sometimes I’m ashamed to be Israeli, in a state where the most basic human rights are being repressed.

How does you experience being part of a minority in Syria affect your views?

If you grow up in a place where you’re a second-class citizen, where you are restrained, your liberties are curbed, your travel is restricted and you are not exactly a free citizen, it helps you understand the other side. This is what motivates me. The fact that my movement there was restricted doesn’t mean my mind was restricted, or my education. It doesn’t mean that my emotions were limited! One of the reasons I came here to Israel is that it aspires to be a democracy in the Middle East and I expected it to fulfill that aspiration.

What do you mean you felt like a second-class citizen? What kind of treatment did you receive in Syria as a Jew?

In Syria I walked around with an ID card with “Religion: Jewish” written on it in large letters. I couldn’t work in any federal jobs or anything concerned with the government.26 If I met people who served in the army or had in the past they feared me and cut off ties with me because it was forbidden for them to be in touch with a Jewish person. It seemed we were viewed as spies. We were always considered Jews, even Israelis, as though we didn't belong in Syria. Until 1974 Jews weren’t permitted to travel farther than 3 kilometers outside Damascus.27 If you wanted to travel to another city, say up north to Haleb [Aleppo] - there are many families in Damascus who have relatives in Haleb or marry their daughters to men in Haleb - you would have to submit a request for a permit, a tasrih, just like Palestinians here. Around 1975 or 1976 that began to change, but before that, those were the travel restrictions.

What made you want to come to Israel?

Let’s be honest. After I left Syria I ran out of money and it was the only place I could go. Being in Israel is important to me now. I didn’t come because I was forced to; I came because of a love for Israel, for being Israeli. We have a state, the State of Israel exists here and I have to be a part of it, regardless of whether I am Jewish or not. But because I am Jewish it’s my job to justify my existence here in Israel. The fact that I have a state here doesn’t mean that I can come here and make this a place for Jews only. Israel should be a democracy for all its citizens. We can’t pick Israel’s citizens with tweezers - we can’t have a state that’s only Jewish. There are people who believe in different religions who live here and we must respect their rights.

What does Israel mean to you?

For me, Israel needs to be a democracy, a state where Jews live peacefully alongside their non-Jewish brothers in peace and quiet with equal rights for all Israeli citizens. That’s Israel to me. This is the country I came to: a place where Jews, Christians and Muslims live together in total equality. That’s what I was told about Israel before I arrived. I don’t care whether Israel is Jewish, or whether the majority is Jewish or Christian, as long as it remains Israel. I don’t think it can continue the way it’s going. We must go on with life. We can’t bury the rest of the people for fear that there won’t be a Jewish majority here. Israel will be like any other country and nothing special. Again, I don’t care, even if we have a single state-which is what I currently think is best-a single state for both peoples without borders; that’s what I want to see happen here someday. No borders or checkpoints, just living peacefully with our neighbors, having a democratic state for two peoples with elections, just like South Africa.

Do you have any doubts that you’re doing the right thing?

No, no. I’m a million percent sure that I’m doing the right thing. Especially when I assist a child in accessing a hospital, and especially when I help a family harvest their olives and sell the olive oil which is their source of income, especially when I help people reach the only road that connects them to the world outside. Last week there was a child at Kdumim checkpoint28 who bled for two hours in an ambulance and then died.29 Did anybody mention it? Did anyone open their eyes? Had it been an Israeli child it would have caused an uproar; the whole world would have been informed. I know that I’m doing the right thing; I don’t think there’s anything wrong or erroneous in aiding children, in assisting the elderly and helping people access their lands. I don’t think that’s wrong.

Does your involvement affect any of your relationships?

I have many problems with my family because I help Arabs. One of the most significant things took place about a year ago. I didn’t see my grandchildren, my son’s children, for a year. He is religious and the rabbis told him-- I don’t know who told my son’s rabbis, though during the activities we attend we’re photographed everywhere we go-- that “your mother associates with Arabs.” They thought they would apply some pressure. I kept calling my son for a month saying I was coming to see the kids and he found reasons, “mother don’t come, we’re going, we’re coming, we’re cleaning.” Finally I said, “What’s the story? Can’t I come visit my grandchildren?” And he said, “To tell the truth mother, I’m miserable, it’s hard for me, and one of the rabbis said last week that as long as my mother associates with Arabs my life won’t get easier.” I said, “You know what? You, and your children and your rabbi won’t change my opinion.”

I didn’t see my grandchildren for a year, until one day I couldn’t bear it anymore! I was used to seeing them every day and I was working two jobs to support them so that they could go to daycare and have normal lives because their mother is Orthodox and thinks that sitting and praying all day long is life! Anyhow, one day I went to their village and honked my horn under their balcony, and the kids came down. We sat in the car together and my son was so ashamed. My son is a son of the Torah and he’s very charming. He said, “Mother, come up.” I said, “There’s nothing for me upstairs. I want to see the children and it’s my right, if you don’t allow me to then I’ll demand it in court.” I don’t want to go to court, I want to see the kids. Now I come to their house freely and visit. I even have the key and I let myself in. They try breaking your spirit in all sorts of ways.

How does your son view your work?

He’s fine with it. We’re not a religious family. When my son received the first pre-draft command he understood that because he speaks Arabic he was going to be serving in the Territories. He said, “No mother, I’m not going to beat children, I grew up with Arab children, how can I go and beat Arabs, abuse the Arab population?” He escaped to his uncle in the United States and stayed there. My brother’s neighbor was religious, and he convinced him that if he didn’t want to serve in the army he should become religious. That’s how he became religious. He became religious so as not to serve in the army.

Did your daughters serve in the army?

One daughter served in a transportation unit in Mishmar HaNegev.30 She was a tank electrician.

What did you think about her serving in the army?

Look, she wanted to. We didn’t want her to serve at the time. She was declared a solitary soldier31 because I didn’t want her to serve and she didn’t live at home. I didn’t want her to serve because her brother didn’t. They are very close in age and they were supposed to be drafted one after the other. When she was drafted he was called up for the first pre-draft command. They are a year apart. When I saw that her brother didn’t want to go and took the measure of escaping to the States and left school and everything and chose not to go to the army, I expected her to do the same. There was a period when we weren’t in touch because she went to the army.

You have another daughter who refused to serve. What did you think about that?

I’m fine with it. I raised my children democratically, meaning they chose what they wanted for themselves.

How has your involvement affected your relationships with other people in your life?

I’m not in touch with my sisters much. My mother’s shiva32 was hellish for me, because I had to spend it at my sister’s house and take all my sisters’ and brothers in laws’ nonsense. Whenever I got a call in Arabic and was organizing things over the phone, they would say things like, “Stupid Arab-helper.” I overheard my brother-in-law saying, “She’ll be an Arab all her life. Why do we need her here?” So on account of it being a shiva I stayed out of respect; if it had been my decision I would have gone and resumed the shiva at home. I asked my cousin who is a rabbi, “If you say that on Shabbat we must remove the mourning clothes, do I have to spend Shabbat here?” He said I could go home and return on Saturday night or resume on Sunday morning. So I went home and didn’t want to come back on Sunday morning! Everyone begged, “No Yafit, don’t do that!” They are concerned with what people would say if they came and didn’t see the eldest sister at the shiva. They don’t care about their sister or human rights-they care about someone coming and not seeing the eldest sister at the shiva and saying they are quarreling.

You can see some other people’s reactions: “Arab lover,” “You probably sleep with Arabs.” Those are the phrases you get from the Israeli public. At work there are young and open people. I told them that I went to a demonstration on Saturday because a boy bled for two hours and then died at a checkpoint. I should have filmed one of the representatives at work when I was telling her about it: “Oh, sometimes I so don’t want to be in this country.” There are reactions and some people distance themselves from me and label me because I’m left-wing, and it causes problems. I left one job after I was seen on television joining a hunger strike with Azmi Bishara33 to protest the wall.34 They made trouble for me so I left. I’ve been at my new job for eight months. It causes problems but doesn’t make me change my opinions. I live according to my beliefs; I’m very stubborn. I do what I want to do.

What’s the most important thing for you to achieve for the country, for the future?

Quiet is important; it’s important for me to achieve a truly peaceful life-a just peace, not this peace. A peace where my neighbors live peacefully, lead normal lives without lacking anything, not with me taking over or hoarding their lands. It’s important for me that there not be any checkpoints, that I be able to visit villages and be received by the people for what I am, to have them tell me only about families and what is going on, not what the soldiers did to them last week! Not about what the settlers have been doing to them all their lives! That’s what’s important. It’s important that we live in fraternity and as good neighbors.

What will it take to achieve that?

Whatever it takes, the price will be worth it. I don’t know what the price will be, I’m no politician. I don’t aspire to say grand things. I’m a very simple person, modest; I usually avoid the media. Only lately I am realizing that I can pass on my message, so that people in Israel can really see. I lived outside Israel for 27 years with Arabs. I can prove to them that yes, we can live with them in peace, as long as I don’t invade their lands, and vice versa.

Which international audiences do you think have the most influence on the conflict?

I think that the United States has a large influence. If they pressure Israel and say get out [of the Territories], it will.

How do you think international communities could be most productive here?

I want all the countries to come and lend a hand or apply pressure on Israel or help the Palestinians rehabilitate their lives, rebuild the ruins that have accumulated over years.

How should this be done?

First of all, in funding. Proving to the Palestinians that there is someone who truly cares. They could pressure Israel in all sorts of ways, to simply cease to suck the Palestinians’ lifeblood. That’s really what’s happening. I remember from studying international trade that in the EU common market they don’t count Israeli produce made in the Territories as Israeli. I think that it’s a wise move to say to Israel, look, listen, stop! These Territories aren’t yours; they are Palestinian. This product isn’t Israeli but rather Palestinian.

What misconceptions do international audiences have regarding the conflict?

Only the international Jewish audience has misconceptions because of our schnorrers35 who travel once a year or every few months to schnorr around the world for Israel, showing that we’re really miserable here and the Arabs are eating us up and killing us. I don’t view the settler as being despondent. They live in villas, cottages. You should see the traffic jams every morning on Route 5 from Ariel36 to Tel-Aviv. It proves they aren’t miserable people on the other side of the Green Line, the settlers aren’t at all dejected. We’re the miserable ones, here in Israel.

Poor mother, when she sends her son to guard the settlers, and he returns in a coffin. Poor young man who is drafted and infected by the military machismo and is instructed to do things that apparently scar him for life. They teach violence. After the army this violent soldier goes home, marries and has children. Where will all the violence be channeled? To his wife and kids. We’re ruining Israeli society this way. When a soldier raises his children violently, the children will grow up to be violent themselves.

I would like to talk about peace processes. Where do you think former peace processes failed up to now?

They failed because they swept the important issues away. For example, nobody talked about a Palestinian state, or their rights to their own state, their sovereignty. If we grant them an airfield but make it conditional on our soldiers being inside it, conducting checks while their soldiers are outside, that’s not exactly a state, not really borders or independence. Nobody contemplated the very important issue of the right of return.37 There are many Palestinians in the Diaspora, in refugee camps, living and suffering. They have a right to return.

Where do you think Palestinian refugees should have the right to return to?

Let them return to where they choose, to Israel or the Territories. I say something many people are upset with me for saying: instead of gathering in the Diaspora, or Christian Russians, Palestinians should have the right of return.

Do you think Jews’ right to come to Israel is important? Is it important that it be a Jewish state?

The question of the Jews’ right to come to Israel is a little bit problematic, but on the whole I think every person has the right to live where he or she pleases, as long as they observe international law and human rights, and don’t invade the lands of others. I don’t think I’d mind living in a Palestinian state, nor do I think Palestinians would have a problem with that as long as I don’t invade their lands and lead my life according to their laws. I don’t care whether Israel is Jewish, I don’t think it can continue the way it’s going.

So what needs to be done differently in peace processes?

Palestinians perceived the Palestinian Authority as corrupt, as something imposed on them. In 1993 we, the Oslo gang, brought them, the Tunis gang.38 I don’t want to get into these things because I don’t aspire to meddle with their political lives. Politics are beyond me. But I see that people out there want democracy, they want to live. The Palestinians are very intelligent, as opposed to what we think. Up until now the Israelis have been patronizing. It shouldn’t be this way. We need to view them as equals. There are intelligent people on the other side, there are people who want to live. Nobody wakes up and wants to blow themselves up just like that.

What do you think peace organizations need to change within themselves?

They need to upgrade themselves, and to unite. They need to give more, not meaning donations or charity, heaven forbid. We’re not donating and if we come to help we’re not paying back 1% of what was taken. We need to put more soul into it, and not quit. I was at Ta’ayush meetings, for example, and saw how they quarrel about everything and every activity they go to. Why? So that it agrees with and matches their policies? If they say Ta’ayush, why aren’t there Palestinians in Ta’ayush? There are only Israeli activists there: Israeli Arabs and Jews, Muslims and Christians. Why aren’t there any Palestinians? If you want ta’ayush-- the word ta’ayush means living together-- why are there only Israelis here? We must live peacefully with our neighbors on the other side of the Green Line.

You said there needs to be unity, but you’re establishing another organization.

I’m establishing an organization that isn’t left-wing; I don’t refer to it as left-wing. It solely aims to protect the rights of children and of farmers to harvest their olive trees and sell the oil.

Who will be the activists in your new organization?

I have a wide range of activists from Israel that understand that I’m not exactly left-wing. Like I said, it’s important to me to first of all explain to the world that there are good people in Israel who care about the Palestinians. To explain to a Palestinian child that there are Israelis who truly care and want him to have his own country and his own normal life, and that we will support him until he gets his strength. That’s what’s important to us. I’m not dealing with who’s to blame because that’s too long a story. I’m putting out fires. That’s what I do.

What do you think needs to be done to change the situation?

I think that all the organizations need to unite and work together, but there are extreme-left organizations, slightly less extreme organizations and center-left organizations. It confuses perceptions. I only concentrate on human rights and that’s my only fight. I think if we cannot grant them a sovereign state of their own based on the ’67 territories39 and take down the wall that has ruined their lives, then at least let there be one state for two peoples. Take the example of South Africa, where there is a single state for whites and blacks. They have elections and they choose their leader. Israel is scared that the Arab minority here will soon be the majority within the state. Of course it will be! That’s nature; you can’t prevent people from having children.

What does the word peace mean to you?

It means hope for a better life: for my children, grandchildren, other children, other women’s grandchildren.

What do you envision here in five years?

Everyone says I look at the world through rose-colored glasses. According to my optimistic outlook, I think that the processes of building the wall and what’s called the “distraction” of the disengagement40 do not constitute a political process. They simply intend to leave Gaza and move the settlers to other settlements. If they continue doing this, despite my optimistic perspective, there will be a bloody war. The Palestinians won’t keep quiet as they have. Their hearts are loaded. It’s very difficult. There has been a great breach of trust and it is very difficult to bridge it again. One thing we try to do in our activities is work with people in villages and just be around them, to restore trust slowly. The opposite needs to be done, too. Israelis must start trusting Palestinians again.

How can trust be rebuilt?

With special meetings, and a lot of joint work. Israeli Jews have a paranoid kind of fear that is self created; it must be reduced from the heart. When I meet a nice soldier who is willing to talk to me and I tell him I’ve been in Jayous for three days for the olive harvest, he asks, “Aren’t you afraid?” I tell him that fear is something we invent, something we must overcome. “Take off your uniform and you and I will go knocking on the door of any house you want in this village. We’ll greet them saying, ’Shalom, sabakh al-khair, salaam aleikom, we’ve come to have coffee,’ or ’Our car broke down and we’d like to use your phone,’ and see how you’ll be greeted! As long as you’re wearing the uniform, don’t expect people to love you or like you, because they view you as their oppressor, you’re the oppressing force.”

What did he say?

“What! If I go there they’ll kill me.” I said “No, I’m sure nobody will kill you. You’re with me, nobody will kill you.” I don’t aspire to be a heroine but I have a good reputation, praise God, in all the villages and with the language I’m very quick to reach peoples’ hearts, praise God. I say “praise God” like an Orthodox person. There’s a saying in Arabic that means God protects from above. My mother, may she rest in peace, always blessed us every morning before we left the house. “May God let all people around you love you.” Wherever I go people always come to me and I make friends and people love me.

I have a friendly demeanor and people like me. Fear is something you yourself create. I grew up amongst Arabs and I know they are not harmful people. If you approach them peacefully they will never harm you. Any person whom you approach in peace will never hurt you.

You said that Israelis don’t trust Palestinians. Where do you think the fear comes from?

I don’t know - maybe because ever since we are little we are taught that you can’t trust Arabs, to the grave. That’s one aspect. This is an old conflict, and since the last intifada there has been severe distrust. It’s very difficult to bridge that gap now.

Can you give an example?

For example, the lynching of four Israelis in Ramallah.41 That’s the reason we can’t trust them. Take the example from the beginning of the intifada-- that Palestinian Authority policeman or soldier who shot [an Israeli] soldier in the head, a soldier who served with him on joint patrols with the DCO.42 They had coffee and then he shot him in the head. That’s their part. For our part, they can’t believe us after we dumped a one-ton bomb on their children, after we’ve been killing them for three years. If you examine the number of casualties from the start of the intifada you’ll see that the Palestinians have three or four times more, and most of them are women and children. It’s difficult to believe us after we stole lands and penned them up in cages. They have no reason to believe us.

How does fear affect each side?

It’s no longer fear; it’s distrust. Fear belongs to young children or women, children who don’t know Jewish people or Israelis, who grew up with tanks threatening them in their villages. That’s fear. Our children are also a little scared of what they hear in stories. But there is more fear on their side than ours.

End.